Season 04 - Episode 01: "I'm Indigenous Not Mestizo" The Art & Activism of Rapper Jaguar Arreola - Part Two (The Interview)
In this three-part series, Brown University PhD Students Benjamin Salinas and Adelaida Tamayo examine questions of art, activism, and identity in conversation with Jaguar Arreoloa, an Indigenous-Chicano rapper based in Los Angeles, California. In Part Two (The Interview), Adelaida and Ben interview Jaguar Arreola about his music and his activism.
NB: Due to circumstances out of our control, there are parts of this recording with less than ideal sound quality. The episode transcript and close-captioned versions of the episode (linked below) may be a useful resource for following along with the conversation should you have a hard time making out any part of the recording
TRANSCRIPT:
SPEAKERS
Jaguar Arreola, Anar Parikh, Benjamin Salinas, Adelaida Tamayo
Anar Parikh 00:00
Anthropological Airwaves is the official podcast of the journal American Anthropologist, whose main offices are located on the traditional and ancestral territories of the Nacotchank, Anacostia, and Piscataway peoples. The Anacostia and Potomac rivers have long been places of trade and gathering for Indigenous peoples, and Washington DC is now home to diverse Indigenous people from across Turtle Island. American Anthropologist has published material throughout its history that have taken knowledge from Indigenous peoples for a scholarly audience and has not required its authors or editors to be good relations to Indigenous peoples and communities. Acknowledging territory is only one step in repairing these relationships. The Editorial Collective of the journal is committed to deep listening and engagement with Indigenous scholars, peoples, and communities to explore ways to be a better relation.
Anar Parikh 00:50
Today’s recording is the second in a three-part episode that was produced on the traditional territories of Indigenous peoples across Turtle Island. The interview portion of this episode was recorded on the occupied ancestral lands of the Narragansett and Tongva peoples. The Narraganset people are the original inhabitants of the land now known as Rhode Island. They have stewarded this land since time immemorial and continue to do so today. The Tongva people ruled the unceded territory that is now known as Southern California for many millennia. Their descendants remain the stewards of these lands. The episode was edited and produced on Narraganset lands. Parts of this episode, including this recording, were also produced from the traditional territories of the Catawba, Waxhaw, Cheraw and Sugaree people. While many descendants of Cheraw, Waxhaw, and Sugaree communities eventually joined the Catawba peoples, today, the Catawba Nation continues to thrive in what is now called Rock Hill, South Carolina.
Anar Parikh 02:12
Hi everyone! Thanks for joining us for another episode of Anthropological Airwaves – the official podcast of the journal, American Anthropologist. This is Season Four, Episode One, Part Three.
Anar Parikh 02:24
My name is Anar Parikh, I’m a PhD Candidate in Anthropology at Brown University. Some of you might already recognize me and my voice, but in case we haven’t had the chance to be acquainted yet, I’m the Associate Editor of the Podcast at American Anthropologist and the Executive Producer of this show.
Anar Parikh 02:44
You're listening to the second installment of a three part series, titled “‘I’m Indigenous, Not Mestizo’: The Art and Activism of Rapper Jaguar Arreola,” produced by Ben Salinas and Adelaida Tamayo, PhD students in the Department of Anthropology at Brown University. Originally submitted as a collaborative, multi-modal final project for a graduate seminar on violence, governance, we’re bringing you’re their work in podcast form with some minor modifications. In Part One, which you can also revisit for some additional background information about the project, they prepared for their interview with Jaguar Arreola, an Indigenous-Chicano musician based in Los Angeles, California. Today, we’ll be sharing the interview itself. Together, Ben, Adelaida, and Jaguar discuss a number of topics including identity, activism, and solidarity.
Anar Parikh 03:36
The interview is really the star of today’s show, so I won’t take up too much of your listening time, but just so you know what you’re listening to: we’re dropping this series in your podcast feeds over the course of a week. Part One, which went live on Monday, is already available for listening. Today’s episode is Part Two – The Interview. Part Three, a follow up conversation between Ben and Adelaida, will be available to listeners on Friday February 25. If you’re tuning in as these episodes drop, make sure you come back for the final installation in a couple of days. If you’re tuning from the future, feel free to listen to the episodes in order, or hop around based on what suits your listening interests!
Benjamin Salinas 04:20
You ready?
Adelaida Tamayo 04:21
Yeah.
Benjamin Salinas 04:21
Let's do it.
Jaguar Arreola 04:23
How y'all doing? Thank you for having me.
Adelaida Tamayo 04:25
Hey! Welcome. Thanks for joining us.
Jaguar Arreola 04:28
Of course, thank you both for reaching out, and you know, for your patience and your your labor.
Benjamin Salinas 04:36
Should we go ahead and start?
Adelaida Tamayo 04:36
Yeah, totally. So I think you've you've talked about before my name is Adelaida [overlapping speech]. I 'm also in anthropology, and I just recently started listening to your music. I love what I hear. I love the radical, revolutionary vibe. And I would love to hear just a bit about your journey to rap. What brought you to the genre, um, [overlapping speech], and what brought you to mobilizing kind of your revolutionary ideas? Through the genre [overlapping speech].
Jaguar Arreola 05:06
Yeah. definitely. Okay, cool. Well, thank you for the question. So, you know, first, you know, for the audience or the public that may be listening to this, my name is Jaguar Arreola. I'm a hip hop artist, and I'm one half of the hip hop duo called Cosmic Force, and with my brother Native Threat. But, what brought me to journey of rap or just even being introduced to this genre, I was I think about maybe about 10, or 11 years old, I had heard hip hop before, but when I really got synced in like, to the point where I had an identity with music, it was around when I was 10, or 11. I don't come from, I don't come from an English speaking home, and most of the hip hop I did grow up listening to was hip hop, that's in English, you know. But, you know, as you all know, probably, hip hop is in Arabic now, there's people that rap in indigenous languages, it's worldwide, it's a global genre, movement, culture. But, you know, what I was hearing was, what was from, you know, the so-called United States. So, I was around 10 or 11. And, and, you know, I, my mother worked at a, at a fast food spot. And in, you know, in my neighborhood, and she's been there for a very long time. And one time, she, she, she had this really old car, you know, and she struggled with it, it was kind of like one of those cars that wouldn't turn on off then it was just, it wasn't reliable. And one day her car got stolen from the parking lot, where she worked. And we kind of were aware that the people who stole it weren't going to get too far because the car wasn't reliable, like at all. And it literally left them I want to say, maybe like three miles up the street, you know, down the street. So when we found the car, we there was like a bundle of CDs in there like a full case of CDs, back when, you know, people used to listen to CDs. And they had like a Tupac, All Eyes On Me; it had a bunch of burned CDs that had like, with permanent marker, it just kind of said like the names of, you know, it said DM--, I know there was a DMX one in there, rest in peace DMX. Rest in peace, Tupac as well. Um, but the one that I really kind of, like, put me on was, you know, Easy Does it, you know, NWA, Eazy E...
MUSIC 06:41
[Easy Does it by Easy E]
Jaguar Arreola 07:49
And I kind of got the experience of a real hip hop, rap CD, right. It's a whole compilation where there's, there's interludes in between, there's like samples in between of like, you know, the rappers just kind of hanging out. bullshitting, Whatever. And, excuse me, is it okay if I cuss?
Adelaida Tamayo 08:08
Totally fine. [overlapping speech].
Jaguar Arreola 08:10
Okay, thank you. So, you know, that really, it kind of just put me up on game but something gravitated me towards that over any other genre, 'cause I was exposed to other genres. My older brother's a skateboarder. He was a professional skateboarder at one point, and he he liked a different kind of genre. I guess it would be like more on the alternative rock side. My mom likes, like, romanticas, you know, just some of the very soft, some very, more lively, I guess. So this is how important music is an art. It's timeless, you know, like, it truly changed my life; just ending up with a Eazy E CD in my hands and the circumstance that happened. You know, it was just, it just ended up being there, 'cause someone, the people who stole my mom's car, they forgot they forgot it there, you know. But, yeah, I mean, it was a it was a that's how I kind of got into the genre. You know, as the years progressed, you know, I was introduced to many other artists, rappers that influenced me. You know, the ones that influenced me in the more revolutionary, political, socially conscious way, was, you know, my favorite hip hop artists is a brother named Immortal Technique. I like him a lot. I like a guy that, a brother that's part of his camp, his name is CF, Constant Flow. He's, uh, from Jersey City, New Jersey. A Puerto Rican brother. And you know, it's just been a lot since then. You know? I listen to a lot, of a lot of different rappers. Some of them are politically conscious. Some of them just tell stories. Some of the, some of it is fun music just for a vibe. But that's the genre I like you know, so. I hope I answered your questions to a certain degree.
Benjamin Salinas 09:57
So, when did you start actually rapping, like in making your own music, and like not just listening to it?
Jaguar Arreola 10:03
January 2016, is when I started my first, when I recorded my first song, and it was a song titled "Spar, Like a Jaguar,"
MUSIC 10:17
[Spar, Like a Jaguar by Jaguar the Rapper]
Jaguar Arreola 10:21
And, that song it was already released and things like that. But um, you know, that was the first track ever recorded, I remember. like, in 2015, I was deep into hip hop, like, I'm talking like that, that was like my religion, it still is my culture. I just go to hip hop shows all the time with my partner, and, you know, just seeing, you know, different MCs perform live. It's just like, man, like, I'm like, yo, like, "I want to do that I can do that, you know, have a lot of rhymes written and but I've never recorded in a studio. I don't even know how would I would go about that process." So, you know, I hung out with, I have some homeboys and homegirls. And, you know, you know, whenever they throw parties, or kickbacks, you know, some of my, my people, they would, you know, gather in the back and we just have a little cypher, right, a little circle. And I would, I would, uh, I would attempt to rap, you know, and some of them were like, "damn, like, you know," mind you, these are my people from my community who aren't really aware of like, social justice, nothing, none of this none of the shit I'm into, to be honest, you know, they just live their life and kind of just like, they're like, "Yeah, fuck the government," but that's, that's as far as it goes, right, "Yeah, fuck the cops," you know, "Fuck racism," but you know, like, that's it, nothing, you know, beyond that. And, you know, I was already deep into, you know, learning about lectures from different Black Power scholars, like, you know, I learned about Dr. Khalid Mohammed, Minister, Louis Farrakhan. And there was a lot of a lot of Black empowerment teachers that I learned from, you know, before my own, you know, as a non-Black person, me, you know, a person who's Indigenous, who's a Native, but I got to give credit to, uh, you know, I've, I've been involved in hip hop since, you know, middle of 2014, through an organization, global organization called Guerilla Republik, it's a hip hop organization--every corner of the planet, Bulgaria, Mexico, Guatemala, and went on, you know, different reservations in the United States. These people helped me push that song, you know, these comrades, these relatives, my brother Iz the Truth, he's a, you know, one of the one of the founders of Guerilla Republik hip hop, he actually helped me push a song. And, you know, I believe that's one of the reasons it might have gotten so many plays early on, but, you know, right away, I got, like, that's very motivating, you know, your first track, you're getting love, people are like posting it, whatever. To anybody listening, you know, if you try if you want to do anything, karate, soccer, hip hop, whatever, only painting, whatever you want to do, there's only one way to go when you start at the bottom, but you got to, you know, work on that craft, and respect the craft. And because it's not a game, it's a culture. And you know, I don't appropriate, I appreciate so I had to come correct. You know, if I joined a kung fu dojo down the street, I'm gonna, I'm not going to quit the next day, I'm gonna keep going. And I'm going to respect the craft because that's someone's culture from Asia. You know, hip hop is Black culture, hip hop is, you know, it started it comes from the African American experience, you know, so, me as a non-Black person, as an Indigenous person, Native, you know, I celebrate my Black relatives, and, you know, the art that they gave the world that I'm blessed enough to be able to participate in. So, shout out to my brother DBZ Suebi for you know, allowing me to go use the microphone. It was it was, it was in the bed, in his bedroom, you know, and, you know, for kind of just believing in the man being like, "Yo, yeah, do it bro." Like, "Shit, like, you know, if you don't do it today, when are you going to do it?" And it's just like that, right?
Jaguar Arreola 14:03
And often times, I get hit up by by artists or people who want to, you know, get into hip hop, and they say, "Yo, how do I do this?" I say look, "Go Craigslist right now, if you're ready, if you have your rhymes and your beat ready, you can find it on YouTube. Again, just rip it off, steal it, some of them are free. It literally says free beats on YouTube, right? Just use it, download it, whatever. Find a home studio, on Craigslist, in your neighborhood and go pay you you're probably paying like $25 If that's accessible to you. $30 For like a one-hour session for you to record. Tell the engineer there that it's your first time. Hopefully they're nice and you know, and they and they're supportive, you know, but they might not be but you know, but you got to be ready for that because man hip hop you know, you get called you people say you're wack, you know, people say you're, you know, that you can't rap, you know, or whatever. So you got to have thick skin and just keep it pushing. Because, I've been told many times that I've been told by a of people that they love my music and I've been told by people who say, "Oh, you know, you know, you might want to do something else," whatever. So you just got to keep it moving. You know, it's like anything. Like, if I paint, you know, or if I or if I sing or dance, someone might not be feeling it as much as others, right. So you got to be ready for that, you know, criticism and just come stronger, you know, work on it, work on the craft. And that's what I did you know, I, I made it an effort to because I was so into going to hip hop shows live, seeing Immortal Technique live, Chino XL, Sick Jackin from the Cycle Realm, like outstanding entertainers, yo, like the I pictured in like, like a stadium, you know, like, like a, like when my ancestors, our ancestors, you know, had people would recite poetry in front of many, in front of an audience, the way these emcees move the crowd, and they're so humble and like, and like shake everyone's hand, you know, they're not commercial, they don't show up with security guards, they literally pull up, get off the tour bus. And like, go holler, they'll go hang out with you at the merch booth for a while, you know, they're, they're, they're there. People artists, 'cause hip hop is, is underground, it's grassroots. Definitely performing live, just kind of like, it just gave me a stronger, more confidence, you know, like more confidence, even when I recorded in the studio, because now I understand, I get it that, you know, I know I can do this. I can do this live, I could do this in the booth. Right. I mean, with no one around me, just myself. So. yeah, you know, I hope that I hope that kind of answered that.
Adelaida Tamayo 16:33
Yeah, totally. And I like what you said about keepin' it moving. Because that's so important in any art form even like, as a student, I think to keep doing things?
Jaguar Arreola 16:42
Yeah, absolutely.
Adelaida Tamayo 16:44
I had one, I wanted to ask you, I really got excited about your name. When Ben told me about your name [overlapping speech]. Because, I don't know if you've heard I mean, I'm sure you've thought about this stuff. But I don't know if you've heard of this, these two Jaguars that haven't, that keep crossing through the Mexico-US border. And like the authorities, they can't stop them. The US really wants to stop them from coming in the US. But they can't stop them. Because obviously, like obviously, they don't respect borders. Anyway, since I heard about that. I love jaguars, and just wondering if you like, what led to your name? Like was it a similar? Kind of?
Jaguar Arreola 17:21
Right. Yeah. Oh, thank you. I appreciate you sharing that. So the name Jaguar, the way it came about was, I, you know, I'm, I love history. I like to study history. You know, like I said, I originally started learning about, you know, Black history, you know, a lot of Black history studying, you know, because, you know, I live in, I live in the United States, right, the so-called colonial republic of the United States. And this is, you know, my experience and also being a big supporter of hip hop music, which, you know, Black people created, like I said, I learned from a lot of Black scholars, before I learned about my own history first and learning about history. Once I started getting into my, my peoples history, my culture, my background, my origins, my ancestry, my lineage, etc., I came to the understanding that a jaguar is Indigenous to the Americas. So right, so our four legged relative, you know, the spotted cat, that animal that relative is Indigenous to this continent, right? So you can find the jaguar in North America, Central America and South America, and nowhere else on the planet. Okay. So, that's real special to me, you know, and not just the Jaguar, there's another you got the coyote, you know, you got the condor. Few others, right. But like the jaguar, you know, it just as I as I, as I did my research and learned, you know, the little Mesoamerican history that I know. I came to the understanding that a lot of nations a lot of Indigenous, pre-Hispanic, pre-colonial nations in Mesoamerica, were what is it, uh revere the jaguar in some way, shape or form? Especially the ancient cultures? Can you guys hear me? Yeah [overlapping speech]. Okay, cool. Yeah. So I came to the understanding that the jaguar is, you know, very sacred among, I actually have a Jaguars hat on right now, it's the NFL team, but, you know, I wear it to represent, you know, our people our lineage, but um, you know, whether it was the Toltec, the Olmec you know, different different, different Indigenous ancient societies from Mesoamerica revere the Jaguar. So, I was like, okay, "If I'm gonna give myself a name, I'm gonna just roll with Jaguar, because that's something that like, I want to represent my people in this in this in this in this genre, in this culture, in this music. How can I represent my people without just you know, appointing myself a very, very Mexican-centric name? I didn't want to do a Mexican-centric name, because, you know, I represent more than the people of Mexico. Those are my people, but also represent people from Ecuador, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras, Panama, Belize, Argentina, Chile, the entire Caribbean archipelago: Dominicana, Cuba... Right. And so called Canada, in my Indigenous First Nations people from Canada, you know, the first people in the "United States," quote, unquote ( I say, quote unquote, a lot whenever I, you know, talk about colonial republics). That's special to me, you know. The same way I represent the, I might talk about corn in my music, corn is indigenous to our continent potatoes, right? We are people have given a lot to the world, the abacus, you know, the concept of zero, Mayan ancestors, right? A cum, we invented gum too, right? A lot of things. So, you know, hopefully I can, I can, people from outside of our, our community can, you know, learn about us and, you know, learn that, you know, in the, in the "New World," as they call it, right, as the colonizers called it, you know, lived a very, very sacred people, you know, that we lived in harmony, and we, you know, with the environment with Earth Mother, and we weren't these quote, unquote, "savage," quote, unquote, "primitive" people that that we're talking about in journals that got sent back to Europe, right, when colonizers came over here. Yeah, you know, it's a, that's, you know, Jaguar, you know, I wanted to represent, you know, the continent Turtle Island, Abya Yala, you know, North Central and South America, because we're the same people, you know? We just, you know, if the southern colonial border got moved up a few miles, you know, people-- Indigenous people of Texas would be called Latinos or Hispanics today, right? So, you know, colonial borders are European, they weren't here, you know, we're older than those borders, we're older than the Bible, we're older than, you know, any cross, anything that's came to our lands after we had already built our civilizations, and communities, our even our, even our very nomadic societies were very organized, you know, very what is it? Um very organized, and, you know, autonomous, you know, autonomous. So, yeah, that's no, that's the, that's the background of where I got the name Jaguar from.
Benjamin Salinas 22:19
So we have this, this question here is like, basically, kind of both of us are interested in like, how our scholarship and how basically everyone can kind of make the world a less shitty place, you know, imean mean, combating racism, which is like, and like every type of oppression, which is kind of why we were drawn to you. So like, yeah, do you believe in like a utopian creation and utopia, like, and if so, like, how can your music be part of that? How can your music help us reach that?
Jaguar Arreola 22:48
So, as far as believing in the utopia, I do believe that another life is possible, you know, I do believe that, you know. Capitalism has only existed for so long, right? We there, you know, there was a live, there was a time before capitalism, right before the transatlantic slave trade. That was the root origin of capitalism and the exploitation of Earth Mother on, in the New World, right in the Americas that began capitalism, you know, and, you know, that's the root of basically, you know, the, the, the destruction of Earth Mother, the destruction of human, all non-human life as well, is from capitalism, White supremacist, patriarchy, heteropatriarchy, all that, right? But, as far as a utopic, a perfect world, we can we can we can try to live a better life, you know, it's, uh, it is possible. You know. We saw an example in Cuba, when, with the Cuban Revolution, you know, people die of old age in Cuba, you know, they live very long lives. That's that can't be said here in the United States, you know. This is the first world right, the champions of the first world. But, you know, I was doing some mutual aid yesterday with my partner, right, we were distributing lunches to the, you know, houseless relatives, relatives without shelter, you know, homeless relatives. And, you know, it just, we are very humbled, you know, you know, what, when we do mutual aid, but we're very saddened that, you know, this system leaves people houseless, right, leaves people without shelter, leaves people without essentials: food, clothing, shelter. We need that. That should be guaranteed, right? Homeless people didn't exist before 1492 on our continent. You know, so that came with White supremacy that came with, you know, European colonization, settlement. So, I do think that another world is possible, you know, I do think that it's gonna look, it's not gonna be on paper, right? I can't put it on paper. I'm not familiar with theory like that. But I don't have to be, right, to imagine it. You know, there's examples of the Cuban Revolution. You've got the Zapatista's, you know, but we will need we definitely will need you know, a unity--intercontinental unity between different leaderships because, we are in an era of imperialism. So I can be an anarchist all I want, right? And we got, we gotta, let's say we got a strong community of anarchists and you know where I'm at, and like, you know, we're ready for anything. But at any point the imperialists can blow us up, right? So, we need, we need support we need we will, we will need a warrior society, right, we will need people that can protect us we need to have, you know, a weapons, you know, weapons because, again, we're in an era of imperialism, right? Where, where, where they've set up a monopoly on everything; they're gonna set up embargoes. They're gonna, if people were to try to push some kind of revolt in this country, you know, you're going to be met with some serious opposition. And I tell people, I tell the conservatives, I tell the Democrats, I tell the Republicans, if you were to try to get some real revolution here, like a real constructive change to the system, guess who would be the first people to shoot you: the police, the police are going to be there to defend the government. They're going after? If you do get through them, guess who's gonna be next the US Marines, the US Navy, the US Army, the all those guys. That all their colonial forces are going to be the next to shoot the people you know, so they're not here to protect the people, they're actually here to protect the corporation, which is the United States. They're here to protect the colony. The Empire right, Neo Rome, I call it and one of my recent songs. The Song is called Fuerza Guerra II...
MUSIC 26:33
[Fuerza Guerra II by Jaugar the Rapper]
Jaguar Arreola 26:44
This is Neo Rome, you know. Only America's not as strong as as Rome because Rome, conquered people and, and they, they let them know that, you know, you know, that they, that other people lost because they were they were they were weaker in conflict, but America is a you know, is, is, bases, bases their oppression on race, you know. Romans con, conquer other White people. Romans, you know, they, they fought each other, right? White people versus White people--the same way some Indigenous nations had a conflict with others, right? Africa, Asia, etc. However, you know, it got ugly, 500 years ago. In 1492, right? When they began to justify the genocide with race, right? With phenotype, with eugenics, shit like that. So that's when they got it, you know, we turn you know, a "new world" happened, right? Something new happened. But um, we, there's definitely a possibility of another world and it takes takes people, you know, banding together, it takes people, you know, being tolerant with one another, you know, being patient, but at the same time getting shit done, you know: mutual aid, you know, you know, solidarity work, and diversity of tactics, right? We can all we can do, we can do both, I can say, "Free Palestine" while still saying, "remove the United States empire from Turtle Island," right? I can walk and chew gum at the same time. I can support Black Lives Matter, I can stand in solidarity with my Asian relatives, because we need a global global unity, right? We need a union among all oppressed people, because we're all under the colonial boot, including a lot of White relatives to you know, European Americans. A lot of them don't realize it, but a lot of them are also, uh, you know, they're also oppressed by the by the ruling class, they elite class, right. So we, we need everybody on the same page so that we can win. Unfortunately, in the United States, it looks a little bit kind of hard because of the race thing, right. Racism is, so, it's just like a nasty, you know, a gash. It's not it's not a small paper cut. It's a gash, it's bleeding out. Brother Malcolm X said that long time ago, um, and the problem is, you know, America won't even acknowledge that it's there, right. And fucking acknowledgement. You know, fix it, you know. And I don't expect the system to fix itself. So, which is why I tell people "you got to, you got to do you got to do things your own way. You got to take your freedom, no one's gonna give it to you. Especially not these nonprofits." You know, I'm saying, you know, you need nonprofits create employees, they don't create revolutionaries. Revolutionaries come from the grassroots, you know, collectives, mutual aid. But as far as my music, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna provide social commentary on it, you know, same way people are writing books. Same way people writing books about the times right now, some people are painting pictures, some people are creating murals about the circumstances that we're living in, right. And you know, Neo Rome-- colonial, this colonial republic--people paint pictures, people sing, people dance, you know, people tattoo, whatever, you know, you know, y'all are doing a, you know, your work, you know, whether it's interviews or journalism, you know, but you're partaking into documenting this and so that people can hear it, you know, hear different perspectives and, and ultimately, a support support the revolution because we need people. We need people documenting, right? You know, I, I want to tell my story, I don't want the White man to tell a story for me, you know, I don't want to die and have a White guy write my book and say, "Okay, here's who he was, woo woo." Nah, I'm gonna tell my own story and we all have control that with this computer that we carry in our pockets, right? We all, we we post on our Instagram or Facebook, that's like a journal right? We're telling our own story.
Jaguar Arreola 30:22
So, you know, I appreciate what y'all are doing. Because, you know, you're, you know, it's diversity of tactics, right? We all participate in some way, shape or form. Some people are slicing the tires on the ICE vans right now, so that ICE doesn't go deport some people to the border, right. And that's, that's solidarity right there. We need that direct action. You know, I'm saying we need that shit. We don't need people just standing on the sidewalk holding signs with a city permit to do a protest, ou know. We need people to take the fucking street without the permission of the city, you know. We need people to block the freeway so that so that the money gets stopped that day, you know. Unfortunately, people are not going to go to work. But that is a that is a sacrifice. It's a revolution. You know, it's it's tactics, right? We need people feeding our homeless, shelterless relative. We need people doing journalism, doing radio shows, these underground radio shows. We people entertaining people to write because it's not just, it's not just a you know, I'm not, I'm not just bumping revolutionary hip hop every day. I'm not, you know, if I'm on my way to the club, I'm not trying to, I'm not I'm gonna be probably listening something that for a vibe, right to have a good time. So, you know, we're, we're multi-dimensional beings, you know, we're not just over just gonna fight fucking fight the system every day, all day. Yeah, we do that., but we also take time for ourselves. We also, you know, again, diversity of tactics, you know, I'm saying so, burnout is real. So, you know, I, you know, I salute anyone on the grounds doing any kind of work. You know, we, but again, my music is going to be social commentary to that. I'm going to, you know, my music has evolved from just being like, pro-Indigenous super like, about my people, my culture, my empowerment, to solidarity with all oppressed people all over the world under the colonial boot of imperialism. of capitalism, of White supremacy, you know. But, and it's gonna be historical, you know, to remind people that they tried to write us out the history books, right by relabeling us, Latinos, Hispanics, mestizos. But, you know, we actually, we're here, we're here before them. Just because I became half White, became a so called mestizo, you know, being a, you know, that doesn't mean I'm, I'm all of a sudden, not Indigenous anymore. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not half an eagle, I'm a full bird, you know what I'm saying?
Adelaida Tamayo 32:43
For sure. Thank you. That covers so much of what we've been talking about in class. And I feel like the things that you're saying, it's just so much more powerful to have a video of somebody talking about it than us like, writing these essays over and over again. So it's awesome, just to hear all of this and have a video of it [overlapping speech].
Jaguar Arreola 33:02
Thank you so much. I appreciate the feedback for sure.
Adelaida Tamayo 33:04
Yeah. No, i mean we can go to the last question last question [overlapping speech].
Benjamin Salinas 33:10
Yeah yeah. Kind of just on this note of diversity of tactics, like, we are constantly trying to figure out what we as university students coming out coming in, it's like, we, you know, we have a position of privilege, you go to a rich university founded on slavery, like built by slaves on stolen land [overlapping speech]. And, you know, we make money off of like, telling grant apologists. We try to tell people stories and try to do that in a way that best benefits people, but you know, it's about being in touch with those people. So, you know, how can, how can you see us or like scholars and universities in general supporting these movements, like, well, what can we do?
Jaguar Arreola 33:49
So I would definitely say thanks for the question. So, become familiar, you know, however, you can, with the ongoing fights in your areas, right with the local fights. Whether it's supporting Black people on the ground, Indigenous people, Asian people, you know, whoever is under the colonial boot that's fighting for some kind of, you know, fight that's some some kind of righteous fight Monetary donations, right. If you got an extra dolla, extra $5, you know, donate to that to that mutual aid group. You know, Again, I would say stay away from the nonprofits you know, just personally just from my own experience, as well like, you know, donate to those mutual aid groups. You can find them all on Instagram, you know, different people share them, support people who do frontline work. Sometimes like, I know my sister kind of who's her name is Kanahus Manuel on Instagram really, but she's the kind who's got tattoos. She is the is a frontliner. She is a land defender water protector for her people, she is Secwepemc, that's an Indigenous nation in what is today colonial Canada. And you know, her people are fighting ski resorts all kinds of shit like they may never signed a treaty with a with a colonial Canadian government. They never signed a treaty with the Queen of England. They're still, that's still their land, and they're building ski resorts, you know, they're they're just, you know, destroying her homelands, and their people are still there. But people, the Canadian government is so invested into claiming that they're very progressive, and that racism does not exist in their country like America, they're like, "Oh, my god, America is so racist, they had Donald Trump," Man, y'all are doing the same shit to indigenous people over there, Yo, you know. So, I would say, become familiar with those fights, you know, again, monetary donations. If you want to support by, by having some kind of fundraiser at your campus, you know, creating a clu where y'all. you know, become informed, you know. You assign different members of your club to become informed about a specific fight going on, maybe in occupied Canada, maybe in Colombia, in Ecuador, etc. And, you know, you can become some kind of vehicle to support those people. And eventually, you build, you build trust with the people that are on the ground, maybe in Guatemala, maybe in El Salvador. You say, "Hey, I'm a student over here, you know, I've gotten I've gathered these funds, can I send them to you?" You're a part of that organization over there. It's grassroots. And, you know, that's how you build international solidarity. You know, it don't gotta be international. It could be here, too. You know, we, I mean, people live in third world conditions here in this country as well, you know. So, um, you know, I would say definitely the mutual aid groups, the collective support anarchist definitely support anarchists; they do a lot of work in the community. And it's like, super low key there. You wouldn't even know who they are. It could be the cashier at your grocery store, but best believe he's probably breaking some pipelines that are carrying, that are going through Native lands, you know, at night, they do some shit like that. So, um, I would say support the anarchists. You know, there's there's anarchist pages online. You know, they're grassroots. A lot of anarchists, you know, people have this misconception that it's like some White boy shit. All the anarchists I've ever met. They're all like brown-skinned like me. I met a lot of Black comrades, they got afros, their anarchy straight up like they are, they're not playing. They're, they're tired. They don't want they don't want negotiation. They don't want reform. They want abolishment. Abolitionist, support abolitionists. The abolitionist movement, you know, um, you know, so, so I would say, you know, communist, too. We we got a lot of like, people of color that are communists, you know. The different routes, you know, that people have taken, um, you know, so I would say, support them, you know, and, you know, if y'all have access to funds, you know, that the school has, then yeah, I would say donate it to those orgs and always base it on power dynamics. So, like, instead of sending, okay, I'm, I'm an Indigenous man, right, I'm straight, you know, I am a straight, Indigenous man. I'm cisgendered. Yes, I'm a person who's who's under the colonial boot, but my sister could be a trans Indigenous woman who could use that support more. So based off power dynamics, right, base it off of gender, she could, I can have a my queer son or my queer daughter, you know, she needs she was gonna need the financial support more than I do. So or, you know, just base it off that, you know, I would say, someone's homeless, you know, the different disadvantages, that's how you would base that support, you know. If you're going to create a, you know, some kind of support team for for migrants, you know, that are, that are that are coming, you know, that maybe there's maybe there's undocumented relatives living in the city where y'all go to school at. Cool. Maybe y'all can support them, you know, maybe creating like a group that supports them specifically.
Jaguar Arreola 38:28
Sometimes, it's important to like, it kind of like, helps you stay organized to just pick a cause, like a specific one, like, okay, undocumented relatives or, okay, um, disadvantaged Back relatives, you know, Asian community, whatever, you know, Indigenous community, you know, it could be indigenous to the whole continent, or it could be the` specific nation where the land where that school was built on, if you don't have the money from the system, it's gonna take grassroots organizing and just basically building you know, if y'all have skills, you know, you know, share them with the community and fundraise and, you know, things like that. Tattoo fundraisers. I know my sister Kanahus who she does tattoo fundraisers. You know, she's a traditional hand poke tattoo. Her husband's in prison. And, you know, we're fighting for his freedom and he's Orlando Watley Elk Bone. He's been incarcerated for over 26 years, crimes he didn't commit so we're still fighting for him. That's what I'm, that's basically my main focus right now. I'm the go to person with him, me and my brother Native Thread. We're the go to people, we were in and out mail with him. He calls me every other day. I put money in my phone, so I get accept calls from prison. He's an Indigenous prisoner. He's Chickasaw, Native American. So you know, he's incarcerated--23 hour lockdown a day, you know, doesn't see the sun, nothing. So it's just it's it's, it's a it's torture. So that's my main focus right now. That's my main fight, just because that's the only one I can commit to right now with you know, because of my current employment, my job. So it only limits me to to fight for something, you know, but and sometimes You know, I can only commit to myself, you know, to just surviving, right? So, um, I would say be gentle with yourselves be kind to yourself. And, you know, make make your time for for your loved ones, for your romantic partners if you have one, you know, and still fight, fight the fight you know, because, you know, regardless if you don't do it someone else will so if I if I take a break today someone's still putting in work today as well you know, I'm saying.
Jaguar Arreola 40:22
So, that's that's the community right? That's, that's that's the, you know. That's how we rock were collected we built, you know, we eat together, right? It's no individualistic, none of this self-made shit, none of this, you know, "I did it on my own woo woo woo." Nah hell, nah. That's how White man mentality, White colonial mentality, European supremacy, you know, which is not the way our people move. Our people, you know, and even Europeans man, like, Europeans had a very Indigenous culture before they got Christianized know that a very responsible relationship with the land before that they were, quote unquote "pagans," you know, they were, they were, they were uncivilized like us too. You know, but, you know, they, they, they were introduced to the idea that, uh, that a Hebrew Messiah died for them, and got, you know, killed unarmed by the police. And, you know, crucified and now they, they saw people as less because they didn't believe in that, you know, so, um, definitely, you know, White people can decolonize too. White people, I would say shit, man, like, like, like decolonize, unlearn, unlearn that, you know, and and, you know, when we say white people, we obviously mean, we obviously mean people that, that practice oppressive behaviors, right, the institutions of White supremacy, the systems that have allowed for, you know, us to continue to be oppressed for, you know, centuries. You know, it's unfair. So, they got work to do, you know, they got work to do fa sho. So, you know, and I'm in solidarity I'm in solidarity with any people right? Any people that want to get free, any people that are that are down for the cause, you know, that aren't aren't prejudice and and your your revolutionary mindset can be diet either, you can't be diet revolutionary. Oh okay, "fuck racism, but um, but but the person that but but they don't support, uh, you know, queer relatives." Nah, hell no, you got to be intersectional all the way, right? We got to be in solidarity with everyone, you know, trans, queer, First Nations, Black, you know, whatever your background is Polynesian, you know, poor. Because at the end of the day, our our opposition is the ruling class that doesn't care about us at all right? Doesn't care about the planet, it doesn't care. that you're gonna have grandkids, you may have grandkids one day and they might not have, you know, clean air to breathe, right. So we got to stay focused, we you know, and then that's what it is.
Benjamin Salinas 42:48
Well, thank you so much for joining us [overlapping speech]. This was inspirational to me. I'm definitely changed you know. And thank you so much. My family's from Chiapas too. My family came here from Mexico. So I feel you with that.
Jaguar Arreola 43:00
Okay. Okay.
Benjamin Salinas 43:01
Yeah, I just really, I really appreciate you for coming out to do this with us.
Adelaida Tamayo 43:05
Thank you. So, [overlapping speech].`
Jaguar Arreola 43:07
Thank you. Appreciate it a lot. I appreciate both of you for reaching out and you know, you know, having me on your, you know, for your school assignment. I also went to school I went to university as well. So, I know that I know that journey to a certain degree. So I wish y'all luck. I know academia in a Western academia is very it's very linear, you know, to say the least. So just just stay focus and you know, handle your business do what you got to do so you can do what you want to do you know? Again, so it's uh, Ben and and then a relative. What is your, is, how do you?
Adelaida Tamayo 43:47
Adelaida
Jaguar Arreola 43:48
Adelaida, okay, and where is your where your heritage from?
Adelaida Tamayo 43:51
I'm Colombian de Bogota?
Jaguar Arreola 43:53
Oh Columbiana. Okay, cool. Cool. All right. Well, I appreciate you both y'all stay safe. Shout out Chiapas, shout out Bogota, you know, Colombia, Mexico, all oppressed people, right [overlapping speech]. We we're gonna we're gonna get free together.
MUSIC 44:33
[music playing]
Anar Parikh 44:59
Thanks for listening to another to another episode of Anthropological Airwaves. The final installment of this series will be in your podcast feeds on February 25. Many Thanks to Jaguar Arreola for his time and insights. This episode was edited and produced by Adelaida Tamayo and Benjamin Salinas. Anar Parikh is the Executive Producer of Anthropological Airwaves and the Associate Editor of the Podcast at American Anthropologist. This episode features the following music: Easy Does It by Ez E; Fuerza Guerrera II by Jaguar Arreola and Produced by Acosta the Man; and Another Day by Kozmik Force featuring Azomali and Produced by Acosta the Man. The background music is made by Benjamin Salinas, and the intro and outro music you hear is titled “Waiting” by Crowander.
Anar Parikh 45:48
As always, a closed caption version of all of Anthropological Airwaves episodes, including this one, will be available on our YouTube channel and a full transcription on the episode page on the American Anthropologist website. Links to both are included in the show notes. If you enjoyed this conversation, be sure to subscribe to Anthropological Airwaves wherever you listen to podcasts. Also, don’t forget to rate and review us while you’re there. A five-star review in particular will help other listeners find the show! We would also love to hear from you in general. If you have feedback, recommendations, or thoughts on recent episodes, send an email to amanthpodcast@gmail.com. You can also reach out to us on our Facebook page or on Twitter with the handle @AnthroAirwaves. Find links to all of our contact information in the show notes and on the Anthropological Airwaves section of the American Anthropologist website.